Colin Haley

Got the FedEx a couple days ago, and have had a couple initial days trying out the RAHP - Yesterday multipitch trad mixed climbing (including taking an exciting whipper and ripping gear!), and today some sport climbing (not that I needed Gore-tex at the sport crag).

First off, these things are absolutely fucking awesome! Even this first round is, without any doubt, the best pair of shell pants I've ever worn, by a large margin. When doing my two tests (high-stepping, and side leg raise) they are far better than any Patagonia pant I've ever worn. Plus, they are full-on weather protection in a properly lightweight package. I feel more confident than ever that these pants (if they don't get ruined on the way to becoming a commercial product) are what I would wear on 90% of my days in the high mountains.

There is no doubt that they are not very fashionable, but I definitely don't care, and I think that is key to the fact that they work well.

First off, the details...

FEATURE DETAILS

1) Fly

The diagonal fly seems great. It's the right length, and the right height (relative to the waistband). Having no flap makes it way easier to access the zipper, and I think the zipper choice is perfect (not a waterproof zipper, but that hidden kind). Nothing to change.

2) Waist

The max-stretched circumference seems perfect, and the amount of tension seems perfect. I think the grip elastic seems really nice as well. Nothing to change.

3) Bottom cuffs

I can fit them over my Alien RS in ski mode and walk mode (when the boots are in walk mode, the cuff is bigger than when they are in ski mode), but it's definitely a bit of effort to get them over the boots, in walk mode especially. With a bigger boot, like my Maestrale, they aren't big enough. I'm a bit conflicted as to whether the cuff circumference should be made 15% larger (to accommodate more ski boots), or kept as it is. I might have to ponder that longer. The grip elastic seems really good.

4) Elastic cord attachment points

The webbing used here seems pretty lightweight, and I suspect it might wear out when the rest of the pants still have life in them. I think that using a slighly more durable webbing would probably be worth the weight. They way that you sewed them so as to not need to tie a bowline is clever, but I think that just a simple piece of webbing that the consumer ties their own cord onto is better for two reasons:

The system you have sewn requires elastic cord of a certain diameter, but if it's just to be tied on with a bowline, then people can use whatever diameter of cord that they like

The system that you have sewn on puts the force on the stitches in a way that I think might make them eventually fail.

So, in conclusion, I think the elastic cord attachment points would be better off just like the ones on other Patagonia pants. By the way, I haven't actually used this feature yet, as the cord you included is too short to get under my boots (combined with the pants being short - see later).

5) Fabric

I don't remember exactly what you called this fabric (Gore-tex Active Shell?), but to me it seems great. It slides well (the most important part!), it seems to breath well, and it seems like great weather protection. Frankly, I don't think there is any need to sew any pairs from Houdini fabric or Stormracer fabric. These are already incredibly light for what they do (thanks to no superfluous features!), and I think they are perfect with the current fabric choice.

And now to the important part...

FIT

The fit is definitely what makes these the best shell pants I've ever worn. I think the way you have designed the waist and crotch is super good. Not only is leg mobility for things like the splits super good, but I think they do indeed feel more comfortable when hanging in a harness than most pants do (less crushing of one's balls)

They definitely are baggy on me, but I really see very little downside of that. I think the difference in weight between a baggy pant and a trim pant is nearly negligible. At least for now, I'd be very hesitant to trim them down, as I think there's significant risk of reducing mobility, and I see very little benefit to trimming them down. Also, I haven't yet used them with properly thick insulation underneath (so far I've used them one day with Piton Bottoms underneath, and one day with Cap 2 underneath).

The only change to the fit that I think needs to be made is the length. When I am just standing the length is right, but when I am wearing a harness (which often pulls your pants up a bit), and with my knee deeply bent, then they are definitely too short. I think the length should be increased by a full 8cm. I'm not 100% sure of this last comment, but: I think the length of the lower-leg could simply be increased by 8cm without modifying the rest of the pattern at all (so, in other words, the length of the lower leg is increased, but the length of the femur is kept constant).


Kelley Cordes


These are the best. Hands down, easily, by a million miles the best alpine pants I've worn. I sound like a testimonial (I swear, Eric isn't paying me), but I'd become accustomed to a little bit of movement resistance with all pants. Layers, fabric, etc, part of the deal, I figured. Well, the Knifeblade Pants didn't resist, but they're 3x the weight of these (no exaggeration), and the fabric offers slightly less protection. I've recently been trying out all my existing shell pants for an upcoming trip, and was totally out of options. All of them gave me some resistance to movement, or were too heavy.

Anyway, after Colin's raves above, Eric made me a pair of these, too, and there is absolutely zero restriction. I don't care if they look a little baggy and some poofy butt (extra fabric = no resistance high stepping), I'll take full movement over a fashion statement when I'm climbing any day. I never need another pair of shell pants.

We really need to produce these. Mine have a thigh pocket, which I wanted, I think most people do (other than Colin), but they're still less than 6oz. The elastic is perfectly charged, the side fly is brilliant (having it in the middle of the harness, right under the belay loop, is always a slight battle).

If any fabric could be taken out without compromising mobility, it might make them look cooler for marketing/sales. But I wouldn't risk it if it compromised mobility one bit. Besides, maybe the baggy look is cool -- I'm the wrong person to ask, and I really don't care (so long as we keep this pattern and make them upon request, ha!). Real climbers will take performance over fashion any day.

The baggy look here could pose an interesting situation for us: Do we make something that is absolutely awesome, because we care about performance, or do we need to dumb it down and make it look fashionable? Uff. Don't add a bunch of shit to it (no bib waist, no reinforcements, no extra pockets, etc -- we have plenty already for the lift-served skier and such  ), just make a limited run and sell them direct only as part of the High Alpine Kit. Enough climbers will start using them and they will catch on. If not, at least we tried. I don't know, that's not my job, but these rule!

Before leaving Vta with mine, I asked Eric for a pair for Wharton (I think he did the +8cm Colin pattern; mine are the original Colin pattern, maybe taken in a touch for my chicken legs).

Colin and Josh are the pickiest testers ever, which is why they're awesome for high-end stuff. I told Eric, "If both Colin *and* Josh like them, then you've made the best pants ever." Ha.

Anyway, Josh and I climbed a long mixed route in the Park the other day, and at one point Josh said, "These pants are absolutely sick. I don't even notice them."

That last part is the best compliment ever. Nicely done.